Reflections on El Coyote & Prop 8
I have a mirror site where I also post my blog. That site gets a lot of traffic and therefore my recent post on Prop 8 and El Coyote has attracted many readers and many comments. Emotions are high, and with good reason. And with high emotions comes differing opinions and alternate solutions. But what is important to remember is that, no matter how you see the situation, if we all want the same outcome, if we’re all working toward the same goal, then we are all on the same team. We saw the divide created by the Bush administration’s moniker, “You’re either with us or against us.” Fortunately, life is not that black and white. But that way of thinking will turn friends into enemies, will weaken the strength of numbers, will make the road to attaining the goal that much more difficult.
As for El Coyote and the protests and boycott underway, there are differing views. This is mine. I hate that anyone has to wait for equal rights. It tears me up inside. And I would never ask anyone to support a restaurant that does not support equal rights. And I’m not asking anyone to personally support El Coyote. However, what I am saying is that the manager of El Coyote, Marjorie Christoffersen, gave money privately through her church to support her personal belief, which in this case was Yes on Prop 8. And yes, her family owns the restaurant. However, this donation was not done through the restaurant nor any corporation affiliated with the restaurant. And the restaurant staff and floor manager have publicly stated that they DO NOT share Marjorie’s views. Had Marjorie done this through El Coyote, then asking for a mass boycott would be fair in my eyes. As it stands now, people are asking others, beyond themselves, to inflict damage on an establishment that does not, itself, support Yes on Prop 8. I understand that the money Marjorie makes in her life comes from her job at El Coyote, but I have to support EVERY individual’s right to make their own decisions about what they believe in politically, socially, financially and religiously. Even if I find it sad and unfortunate and extremely closed-minded. In my opinion, we must all be careful to not discriminate against other people’s beliefs and their right to have those beliefs and express them in their private lives. Roseanne Barr has urged for a broader boycott of every organization which has large numbers of Mormons on its executive payroll (the Mormon church gave heavily to the Yes on 8 campaign). While I understand the sentiment and I certainly understand the feelings behind it, I must also add that this can be a slippery slope and one that can easily be seen as fighting discrimination with discrimination. While I do not share the views of the Mormon church, nor do I support their fight for Prop 8, I can’t support what I see as discrimination against Mormons. There is a campaign to cut the tax breaks allowed to the Mormon church. I support that. To me, that’s the correct approach. The church used this money toward a political goal. That is illegal. And it came directly from the church. Even protesting outside the church is called for. Not because they are Mormons, but because they are spreading inequality. However, one shouldn’t try and get the members of that church to denounce their faith, but to try and get them to understand what they are doing and the effect it has on human lives.
If Marjorie had hung Yes on Prop 8 signs up at El Coyote, or had made a donation to that cause through the restaurant, that would be a whole different situation. But that’s not this one. This seems to me, at the moment, to have more to do with hurt, betrayal and anger than with reason. I do not see ANYTHING POSITIVE coming from this boycott of El Coyote. Again, let me reiterate, I am not telling anyone that they should go there. Only that they should consider what they believe they will gain by telling others not to go in an attempt to negatively impact the business.
Some have suggested that this is an act of civil rights, like the Montgomery Bus Boycott. But this is not the same situation as that. The desired result there was to give black people the right to sit anywhere they wanted on those buses. And that’s what they got. That’s what they deserved. All I see here is an attempt to hurt Marjorie because she hurt others. I see punishment. And no clear goal or resolution. Perhaps people want Marjorie to step down. Okay. Again, she made a private donation. Like it or not, it was not and is not a reflection on El Coyote or any of the people who work there. Just Marjorie. Or perhaps people would like to see her denounce her faith. When Marjorie was asked if she would donate money to No on Prop 8, she burst into tears and said, “I will not.” Are we really asking this woman to change her beliefs, to denounce her religious community right here right now on the spot? Is that fair? And is that the goal?
What I see is a widening of the gap of understanding. We should all be more evolved than Marjorie. And in doing so we should understand her in a way she seems unable, currently, to understand others and their rights. However, with a different approach, one of education and understanding, she may have come around, or a nugget of truth may have been placed in her heart and mind that may have manifested into
something wonderful. Remember, many of her favorite customers are gays and lesbians. She is someone who has real faces to place on the choices she is making; she has people who could express their hurt, sadness and sense of betrayal to her directly. People she sees as human beings, despite her inability to currently comprehend what her actions mean to their lives. This was a wonderful opportunity potentially lost in a maelstrom of anger and disappointment. What has been achieved, most likely, is a deeper rift. Marjorie will most likely embrace her church and its community even more deeply now. Here’s an example: When I learned my sister was going to vote for John McCain, I called her up and, instead of yelling or accusing or telling her she needed to change her views, I told her I was here to answer questions she may have and to help her understand exactly what she was doing so that when she voted, no matter who she voted for, she would be voting from a place of understanding and not just blindly hearing talking points and/or misinformation. I let her know that I thought a vote for McCain would have a direct negative impact on her and her family, as well as millions across the globe. We then talked for an hour and a half. She thanked me for this approach and shared with me that when someone she knew had gotten angry with her and had thought her crazy and attacked her for thinking of voting for McCain, that reaction made her want to vote for McCain even more. Not a very logical reaction, but a strong emotional one. And an understandable one. My instinct was to get upset and rant at my sister, but I refrained, asked myself what I wanted the result of my conversation with her to be, and changed my approach. I respected her. And she listened and engaged. That does not mean she voted for Obama. I truthfully don’t know who she voted for. But there’s a chance she did, where before there was none.
So, while I do understand the emotions at play here and mean in no way to diminish or belittle them, I do believe that what is happening over at El Coyote is not something that will help the cause, but simply help fuel more anger, hatred, resentment and, ultimately, result in more people taking a longer time in coming around to understanding this. Marjorie is not a villain. She is a human being. And right now she’s one of those people who will soon be relegated to those unfortunate few who can’t let go of their frightened beliefs, like those who still maintain that blacks or women should not share equal rights. But Marjorie is also one of those people caught in a very confusing and difficult position. She is being asked to choose between her church, religious community, and lifelong beliefs and her friends, patrons, and public community. This is not a choice that most people will be able to make overnight. It’s confusing and frightening. It requires a complete reworking of how you see the world, who you trust, what you’ve believed in the past, what you feel in your gut, even how you see yourself and what kind of a person you believe you are. Given time, patience and understanding, Marjorie COULD become one of the movement’s greatest supporters. But that will never happen if you force her or try and punish her for her personal beliefs and her right to engage them. Again, I’m talking about what she does in her personal life, not her professional one.
No one can stop gays and lesbians from attaining their equal rights. It’s happening. Here. Now. The fact that this was even up for a vote, the fact that there are protests, the fact that stars and newscasters and journalists, mothers, fathers, kids are all speaking out publicly against Prop 8 is momentous. And growth and change is painful. And that’s where we are. In the midst of growth and change. And all I ask is that we find ways to embrace that which will move us forward more quickly, that which will educate, that which will close the divide and the misunderstanding. And not that which will fuel the hate and sense of victimization. That is too easy a path to go down. And that will make the whole process longer and even more painful. Ask what you want your end result to be. And then ask what is the best, smartest, most evolved way to go about attaining it. If you think boycotting El Coyote is the way, then it is your right to do so and I support your right. However, I think there is a better path, a path that isn’t steeped in the anger, resentment and hurt of the moment, but one that sees a bigger picture and understands that everyone involved is a human being. And one that allows the hurt and anger to be addressed and dealt with and felt in a constructive manner, and not one where we become victims of our own hatred and slowly find ourselves turning into the very people we hope to change.
This entry was posted on November 15, 2008 at 1:41 pm and is filed under Los Angeles, Politics, Religion with tags angry, black, boycott, Bush Administration, change, comments, conversation, denounce, discrimination, El Coyote, evolve, faith, frightened, Hatred, inequality, manager, Marjorie Christoffersen, McCain, Montgomery Bus, Mormon, Prop 8, punish, Reflections, resentment, Roseanne Barr, staff, tax, victim, with us or against us, Yes on Prop 8. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
November 15, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I understand and embrace your reasoning. I, too, do not care to go forward in anger. However, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
You state here that Marjorie made her contribution as an individual which I don’t doubt although I would appreciate knowing your source on that topic. I ask because I first heard about the donation when reading a conservative website boasting the businesses that had donated to Yes on 8 and it was insinuated that the donation had come in the name of the business, El Coyote. I tried to figure out how they would have known that Marjorie was connected to El Coyote had she not made the contribution in the name of the business. It’s not like hers is a household name.
I respect Marjorie for standing behind her beliefs but … being principled is sometimes painful as well. I respect her because I have taken stands in my life, but I have also reaped the repercussions of those stands, as Marjorie now does. I have lost jobs by standing strong. I have lost friends and relationships both personal and professional. As a result, I have lost money … as Marjorie is now experiencing. Call it punishment or call it what you will. The universe has different ways of dispensing information to different people. Your sister had you. Marjorie has a huge gay clientele and their boisterous reaction is how the universe has decided to dispense this lesson/information to Marjorie.
If you are suggesting NOT boycotting El Coyote so that we may go in to dine and ask to speak to Marjorie each time in an effort to discuss the issues in a civilized manner then … okay. But how often is that apt to happen? How does NOT boycotting help otherwise? If Marjorie is nothing more than a manager, then El Coyote has the unfortunate option to terminate her from her position in order to make clear that they do not share her feelings or beliefs. I worked in the restaurant business for 13 years and I’ve seen managers terminated for looking sideways at someone. If Marjorie is in some way a co-owner or proprietor of the place … then her actions DO, in fact, reflect on the establishment far more heavily than her simply being an employee. Each time we patronize the establishment we enable the continued financial support of this and future attempts at stripping people of rights her church deems ungodly.
To be fair, my reaction is probably coming from growing up in religion. I have yet to experience, even one time, someone with strong religious strings (all of my immediate and extended family on both sides … save myself … and their friends) being reasonable or rational or open to discussion, fact or logic. I have only EVER seen someone who is religious respond to something outside their realm of “belief” if it DIRECTLY effects them. Only if it’s THEIR relative is gay will they rethink it. Only if the hurricane hits THEIR home or community will they pay attention. Only if THEIR pocketbook is effected. Only if President Bush came to THEIR home and spat in their face would they reconsider him as anything other than near holy. And maybe not even then. The universe is doing what it can to convince Marjorie to take a second look at her decision and I’m not here to stand in the way of the universe.
My hubby wanted to add: Whether it’s one dollar or one million dollars there is no such thing as an acceptable level of intolerance.
All of that being said:
1) I just heard that the wait staff pooled money and donated 500 dollars to the effort to repeal Prop 8 and that makes me want to thank them with my patronage and a large tip.
2) I WANT someone to convince me to continue to enjoy the margaritas at El Coyote. I live in the neighborhood and am a regular customer. I had my 25th birthday party there back when you could still smoke in the bar. I’ve been going there for MANY years and I am looking for someone to convince that my gut is off base.
3) This, too, shall pass.
Thank you for your eloquent point of view.
ALEX
November 15, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Thanks for your comments, Alex. It’s a very complex issue with no easy answers. As for her donation, all reports are that knowledge of her donation was taken from a list of people who donated. Hers was done through her church as all members of the church donated. And I agree that the amount of her donation, though relatively small, is not what we’re talking about here. Support is support. I’m also not suggesting that people go to El Coyote if they don’t want to. I’m also not suggesting people not be hurt, angry, feel betrayed by what Marjorie did. Her beliefs here are sad and unfortunate, especially given that she works and has a family that owns a restaurant with a large gay customer base. I think it most appropriate to either not go or to send Marjorie a letter or an e-mail or tell her in person that you will personally not be going to the restaurant anymore. Each person has that right. And it’s not unreasonable. Like the Sacramento Musical Theatre artistic director who stepped down because of the reaction to his having donated money to Yes on Prop 8. There are a lot of actors who, despite thinking him an extremely talented and creative individual, were not comfortable working with him. However, I think it would have been inappropriate to ask others to boycott, to stand outside en masse and yell at those who choose to go, as is happening at El Coyote.
Many of the people who work at El Coyote are gay and lesbian. And even the ones who are not have said publicly that they do not share or support Marjorie’s views. My point here is that we must be careful how we react, who we focus on, who we point fingers at, and what we ultimately want to gain by our actions. Marjorie has lost the respect of the community and many, many beloved patrons. She is paying for her actions. Not as a punishment, but because people don’t want to be around her if she believes that there are people in the world, in HER world, who are not equal and don’t deserve equal rights. I take issue with asking everyone to boycott El Coyote. Now I am not personally effected as I don’t dine at El Coyote cause I’m not a fan of the food. My life doesn’t change. Not in that way. But when I see hurt and anger channeled into something that verges on discrimination or intolerance or vengeance or even simply working against educating people for the cause, I have to speak up. This isn’t the universe acting here, this is people making choices. And I think in this instance, Marjorie has become the face of everything that hurts, everyone who voted yes. The entire establishment is suffering for what she did, not in the name of that establishment, but in her church. And as much as we might not like it, firing her would also be discrimination because she would be fired for her religious beliefs OUTSIDE OF WORK. A distinction has to be made or there will be other forms of discrimination, against Mormons, against blacks (who poll numbers controversially suggested voted 70 percent in favor of Prop 8) and all the establishments they own, work at, hold top positions at. The goal here is to educate and to attain equality for all. And that requires understanding and tolerance. Certainly Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had different approaches to the cause at times. I personally found one to be more effective over all than the other. Though both men made their mark and had their voices heard.
I want to make it clear. If El Coyote had, as a business or a company, donated money or even endorsed Yes on Prop 8, I would fully support the boycott and find it just. But WE MUST have the freedoms in our lives to believe, donate and vote as we want without being persecuted in our place of business, especially when the others at that business, whose livelihoods are tied into that business, are actively, vocally and financially in opposition. I’m talking about on a mass level here. I believe individuals can and should act in accordance with what they are comfortable with. No one should go who doesn’t want to go. But don’t ask or intimidate others into not going. Not giving your money to El Coyote is one thing, trying to damage the business over all because of someone’s belief in their private lives is another. I believe it sends a negative message and works against creating equality and understanding. These people should be standing outside Marjorie’s church protesting and educating people as to this particular act on the part of the Mormon church. Not as a discriminatory action against Mormons, but as an educational action into what it means to not allow someone to have equal rights. They should, however, not stop or intimidate church members from entering their place of worship.
During the presidential campaign, when Barack Obama mentioned John McCain’s name and people booed at a rally, Obama’s response was “Don’t boo. Vote.” What’s happening at El Coyote isn’t people empowered, it’s people angry. There is nothing to be gained in this action that will allow gays and lesbians to have equal rights. Nor will it change anyone’s belief systems. We saw what happened when McCain and Palin let their audience voice their anger and hatred. It was ugly. And it turned many people off. It may have even lost them the election. It certainly helped drive away other Republicans who could not endorse that particular kind of approach or behavior. All I’m asking is that people refrain from being an angry vengeful mob and return to being people working toward equality and what’s right. The anger is justified, the reaction is understandable. I just think it hurts the cause in many different ways. I do not believe it will be remembered as a proud moment in the fight for equality. I know we can do better. We deserve to do better. That’s all.
November 15, 2008 at 11:04 pm
thanks for the post and your reasonable comments about el coyote. just correction:
the mormon church only donated about 2000 dollars. all other contributions came from private members, on their own, donating.
maybe this is what you meant in your post…i don’t know. i am mormon, and i donated to the yes on prop 8. but my donation doesn’t count as a church donation.
November 16, 2008 at 12:58 am
Thanks prop8discussion. Appreciate the correction. According to the San Francisco Chronicle:
“The [Mormon] church largely stays out of politics. But in this case, the Salt Lake City-based church has sent letters, held video conferences and in church meetings asked for volunteers to support the campaign. In response, some church members have poured in their savings and undertaken what may be an unprecedented grassroots mobilization for the effort.
Prop. 8 is on pace to be the costliest race in the nation, except for the billion-dollar presidential election. The Yes on 8 campaign estimates that up to 40 percent of its donations come from Mormons. Some others estimate that Mormons account for over 70 percent of donations from individuals.”
The Chronicle goes on to point out:
“All of California’s Catholic bishops have all come out in favor of the measure. So have many evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews. Yet it is Mormons, who account for 2 percent of the state population, who are catching the most heat.”
Advocate.com adds:
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has mobilized followers to give an estimated 77% of donations to support California’s proposed marriage ban.
Californians Against Hate released figures Tuesday showing that $17.67 million was contributed by 59,000 Mormon families since August to groups like Yes on 8. Contributions in support of Prop. 8 total $22.88 million. Additionally, the group reports that Mormons have contributed $6.9 million to pass a a similar law, Proposition 102, in Arizona.
“It is a staggering amount of money and an even more staggering percentage of the overall campaign receipts,” Fred Karger of Californians Against Hate said in a press release. “The Mormon Church, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, has hijacked the campaigns in both California and Arizona, where voters face constitutional amendments to end same-sex marriage.”
In the opinion of Nadine Hansen, who runs Mormonsfor8.com:
“Any group that gets involved in the political arena has to be treated like a political action committee,” said Hansen, 61, a Mormon who lives in Cedar City, Utah, and has stopped going to church. “You can’t get involved in politics and say, ‘Treat me as a church.’ “Hansen said she focused on Mormons because she is one. She said Mormons have contacted her to shut the site, saying it was being used by the Daily Kos campaign in a “witch hunt.”
“I didn’t think there were any witches on the list, so I wasn’t worried,” said Hansen, whose site is “neutral” on its views, though she is opposed because she views it as “divisive.”
The Daily Kos campaign to look into the lives of Mormon donors is headed by Dante Atkins, an elected delegate to the state Democratic convention who said he’s the vice president of the Los Angeles County Young Democrats.
Atkins said his goal was to “embarrass the opposition by pointing out and publicizing any contributors they may have.” He said focusing on Mormons made sense. “If one religious group is putting close to the majority of the money and the effort into passing this proposition, it is fair to single them out.”
I do, however, want to point out that being a Mormon does not mean you support Prop 8. According to the SF Chronicle:
“Christine Alonso’s body trembled and her lips quivered as she walked up and spoke to a few of the 50 protesters in front of the Mormon Temple in Oakland on Sunday.
“Don’t think they’re all against you,” said Alonso, 27, explaining that she was Mormon and that despite her religious leaders’ support of a ballot measure banning same-sex marriage, she was actively opposed.
As she walked away, she said, “I’m afraid that a gay or lesbian friend might hear that I’m Mormon and think that I want to tear their marriage apart.”
It may also be important (or at least informational) to point out that:
“Several Bay Area Mormons said they would support the right of gay and lesbian unions to have all the rights of married couples. But the word marriage was sacred, pivotal to their concept of families, who can be “eternally united” in the afterlife. A key church document – “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” – says that “marriage between man and a woman is essential to His eternal plan.” They also believe that children are entitled to be raised by a father and a mother.”
Unfortunately, in my view, any religion or religious group that rallies its members to change the Constitution to discriminate against anyone in anyway, simply based on a belief system not shared by all who would be effected, is a very dangerous thing. Under these circumstances, I believe it would be criminal to amend the Constitution. I do not believe that this was something that should have been on the ballot in the first place.
November 16, 2008 at 3:40 am
The U.S. government crossed a VERY serious line with PROP 8.
This “proposition” threatened children’s sense of safety and belongingness in California. Children’s safety.
Regardless of THIS particular fight, there are way too many fights on way too many fronts for us to conquer piecemeal. The Time is Now – DRAW A NEW LINE in the sand and demand from President Obama and our representatives FULL EQUALITY.
Equality Is Simple When You Simply Include Everybody.
What? Not detailed enough for the lawyers?
OK, we can list repealing DOMA, repealing DADT, include transgender in the ENDA Bill, allow adoption of abandoned children, equality in immigration issues, recognize our hate crimes as such, equal family/children rights……….whew! See what I mean?
We are EQUAL SOULS in HUMAN BODIES. Could we please STOP discriminating due to the genitalia attached? Plumbing will determine each civil right?! Any separation from the pack is ultimately due to gender (and/or gender roles & stereotyping), and that is SEXISM. I cannot marry Bob because I am the “wrong” gender; if I were a woman I could marry Bob. SEXISM.
And I cannot stress ENOUGH how my own suffering from Marriage Inequality is NOT the reason for wanting or needing equality. I am not something to focus on. But my story, and the stories of countless other Americans desperately need to be addressed in this civil rights struggle. Marriage laws were put in place many years ago in order to PROTECT individuals and their FAMILIES; if they were NOT necessary they would not exist (for heterosexuals). When these laws are NOT in place for ALL OF US, horrible, horrible suffering occurs. My WEBSITE has many examples.
So Americans want to continue denying us what they have already deemed as essential. And many people want us to WAIT…2….5……10…….20……..30 YEARS, depending on the “civil right”, for what WAS and IS our birthright.
I personally have a HUGE problem with that. I cannot wait. I will not wait.
Will you join me on Wednesday, April 15th, 2009, and help me inform the government that WE are eager to be included in the federal tax base as soon as THEY include us in society’s laws? My 5-year-old students could understand this concept: EQUAL = EQUAL
As Americans can’t we agree that there are MANY other important issues to address (like the Economy, Education, Health Care, Poverty & Homelessness, Iraq/Afghanistan…all of these are related), and solving THOSE problems is more urgent than having “Equality Issues” TIE UP THE COURTS for another 30+ years? We will NOT go away.
You keep procreating; we keep popping out. Sorry.
Our representatives have spent years inventing 4-letter words (DOMA, DADT) to restrict us, deny us, demoralize us, and harm our beloved families and children. Enough is enough.
NO MORE. NO MORE.
=========================
The National Equality Tax Protest
– Wednesday, April 15th, 2009 -
=========================
November 16, 2008 at 11:41 am
I fully agree, John.
“You keep procreating; we keep popping out. Sorry.”
May be the best line I’ve heard to date. You have my support.
Hal
November 16, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot over the last week or so. I’ve engaged friends and family in conversation. Overwhelmingly their views have not been similar to mine. I’ve gotten the polite “I hear what you’re saying, but . . .” thing. Then today, after reading about all the demonstrations across the country in this morning’s paper, on the Internet I tracked down the organization that has been leading this battle, Join the Impact. What follows is from their mission statement:
“In an effort to make a positive impact in the lives of our community, our allies, and even our opposition, JoinTheImpact.com emerged. Our movement seeks to encourage the LGBTQ community not to look towards the past and place blame, but instead to look forward toward what needs to be done now to achieve one goal: Full equality for ALL. We stand for reaching out across all communities. We do not stand for bigotry, for scapegoating, or using anger as our driving force. Our mission is to encourage our community to engage our opposition in a conversation about full equality and to do this with respect, dignity, and an attitude of outreach and education.
“JoinTheImpact, as an entity, will not encourage divisiveness, violence, or disrespect of others and we do not approve of this. We do not stand for pointing the finger at one group and placing blame. The LGBTQ community comes in all different colors, creeds, religious beliefs, and political parties. If we allow ourselves to place blame on one community or another, then we are no better than those who oppose us. We will not pit one community against another.
“At JoinTheImpact, we are all inclusive. As such, we will continue to encourage debate from all sides of the conversation provided it is civil and respectful. We will encourage our community to not let anger steer the conversation, but with an understanding that anger is a human reaction and we hope that it can be used as a catalyst toward positive change.”
This makes sense to me. Boycott El Coyote if you want to. But don’t make it the boogey-man. Reasoned conversation will get you a lot further than angry confrontation. What we want is justice and equality. What’s the best way to get that?
November 16, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Thank you for that, Karl. It is the sentiment I share. It is everything I have been asking for all along. I hope people listen.